Ep. 23: Dendreon Head of HR Phil Dana on Cultivating Purpose within Your Team
In this episode, Darren Reinke chats with Phil Dana, Head of Human Resources at Dendreon. Phil shares how the lessons he learned in the military and in construction have benefited him in his HR career, the importance of cultivating purpose within your team and organization, and why he intentionally surrounds himself with those smarter than him.
Dendreon is a commercial-stage biopharmaceutical company and pioneer in the development of immunotherapy. Dendreon’s flagship product, PROVENGE, was the first FDA-approved immunotherapy made from a patient’s own immune cells. More than 40,000 men with advanced prostate cancer have been prescribed PROVENGE in the U.S. since 2010.
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SHOW NOTES
How Phil Ventured from the Navy Into Human Resources [1:06]
How the Perception of HR Has Evolved Over Time [4:01]
Why People and Culture Are Having Major Implications on Business Strategy [6:39]
How Phil Creates a Thriving Culture in a Less Structured Environment [8:07]
Why Creating an Authentic True North Serves as an Anchor for Your Company [10:38]
The Key Steps Phil Takes to Create Individualized Purpose Within His Team [12:49]
How You Can Create Your Own Sense of Purpose Regardless of Occupation [17:18]
Why You Should Instill the Mindset of Lifelong Learning Within Your Team [20:19]
Why Phil Enjoys Being the Dumbest Guy in the Room [22:53]
The Crucial Skillsets Phil Looks for Before Making a Hiring Decision [26:32]
How Phil Evaluates Peoples' Team Ability and the Importance of Hard Work [30:07]
SHOW LINKS
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PODCAST TRANSCRIPT
Darren Reinke: Welcome to The Savage Leader Podcast, where I interview leaders from all walks of life so that you can walk away with tips to apply to your life and your career. But this isn't your traditional leadership podcast because I believe that leadership tips come from successful entrepreneurs and business executives, of course. Still, they also come from unexpected places, like Navy SEALs, successful professional athletes, sports coaches, musicians, entertainers, and more. So let's dive right into today's episode; my hope is you walk away with something tangible that you can apply immediately to your life in your career. Today's guest on the savage leader podcast is Phil Dana. Phil is the head of HR Dendreon, a biopharmaceutical company that develops immunotherapy treatments to battle cancer. Their flagship product, Provenge has been used to treat over 40,000 men with advanced prostate cancer. Hey, Phil, thanks for coming on today.
Phil Dana: Thanks, Darren. It's been awesome to reconnect. And thanks for having me on the podcast.
How Phil Ventured from the Navy Into Human Resources [1:06]
Darren Reinke: So Phil, it's interesting to think about your background is how does a ex Navy guy doing a lot of different things before how do you get into HR?
Phil Dana: I think like most people in HR, you kind of stumble into it, or somebody whispers in your ear and, and that very rare moment, I actually listened to the person that was whispering in my case, I transitioned out of the military and had somebody who had worked with before, who knew me so that's an important highlight who knew, knew me who my strengths knew my opportunities. Certainly there were quite a few, and whispered in my ear at some point after watching me work. As a construction manager, I built houses in Las Vegas, and he said you would be really good down here at headquarters in HR. And as a former Navy guy, I had a vision of what HR was that was not even close, completely different planet. And in that moment, I listened to him. And boy, that was I lucky.
Darren Reinke: Yeah, what a big shift. I didn't realize the construction worker piece. So ex Navy guy construction worker HR. So what was it about that? What were those words, he said, like what was really what intrigued you in terms of what HR could be.
Phil Dana: As I got to know the business world, I worked for one of the country's largest home builders. And so we were out in Vegas building a ton of houses a lot of complexity, a lot of business language. And as many who transition from the military, I was faking it until I make it. I was honing my PowerPoint and Excel skills, and trying to keep up because building houses is a pretty good business to learn from, quickly realize that hiring, onboarding, developing and retaining the best talent would make me successful builder, especially relative to the 50 other divisions that were across the US. And somehow, the way I was doing it, because I didn't get a lot of training or onboarding myself, was really resonating and the results were showing. And the folks at headquarters in Dallas, were paying attention and watching me in one day, they just came up and asked how I was doing it. So I'm literally running my site, like a ship. You know, I had a clean site, I mustered on 32 subs in the morning, the supervisors, I spent time walking the houses with the guys that were building it, I built those relationships. So you know, in anything a decent leader would be doing. And to me, it wasn't about the complexities or the technicalities of building the house, because I'd never really done it before. It was just about the people, the people aspect of it. And the more I focused on it, and the better I got our results based on the people, the more the smarter folks headquarters kept saying you would be good in HR.
Darren Reinke: Yes. Interesting is this think about just how roles have changed and how certain C suite titles get elevated into that table? And how is the role of an HR leader evolved over the years? Obviously, you've had a long track record, you've worked for some very, very large brands, like how is HR change? Like how is it the perception change in terms of HR as being a more of a strategic function?
How the Perception of HR Has Evolved Over Time [4:01]
Phil Dana: Yeah, I think it's definitely come full circle to the Jack Welch days where head of HR could possibly step into a CEO role. And I think truly the best HR leaders and I'm still striving to be so this is not a this is me kind of statement. But the best HR leaders know the business down called, could probably step in to most of the aspects of business and run those or lead those. And that allows you to get ahead of it. And to open the doors, create the runways and to predict what the people problems will be because as most of us know, in business, the people aspect one is usually your largest line item to like a golf game is never perfected. And three, if you get it wrong in early stages or at critical stages, it'll sink the whole ship. And so you know, one of the quotes I think somewhere on my LinkedIn profile is the measure of a great ship is in its crew and on its guns. That is certainly true nowadays, as the business speed is accelerating. Now folks are looking for three, five year exits, equity moments, the speed of innovation, the amount of new tech, new medical science, it's really picked up and continues to pick up. And so the faster you are, as an HR leader, the more knowledgeable of the space and the business you are, probably the better you're going to perform in your role.
Darren Reinke: Yeah, you make a great point in terms of the strength of a ship is the team and not the guns. And it's interesting is people think, Oh, they're a technology company, or they're a biotech company. Oh, there Oh, yeah, we're true. Our human capital company, being a professional services company. But at the end of the day, we're all people, companies. That's interesting point you make about you think about a ship and the guns, but of course, it's the crew, that is really the power there.
Phil Dana: I'd love to do a beta test someday. And maybe McKinsey or somebody like that has already tried it. But I would love to take a build a team of the best leaders I can find on the face of the planet, and then have no technology. And then over here have the best tech, something super cool, groundbreaking, but have average mediocre folks and leaders. And then just throw a surprise tech on the team of awesome leaders and a great team and see which one wins. I think if this was Vegas, I would bet on the team of superior people versus the tech.
Why People and Culture Are Having Major Implications on Business Strategy [6:39]
Darren Reinke: Yeah, I guess an important point is is the the people in the technology really should enable the people not replace the people. So you mentioned something else interesting in terms of just the pace of business increasing, I talk to me about like, what are the implications from a people perspective, and from a culture perspective as well.
Phil Dana: Definitely, perceptions are shifting quickly. You know, looking at my LinkedIn profile, I look like a gypsy. The reality is, every time I moved, it was zig and zag. It was an added tool in my toolkit, which enables me to be an HR leader for a startup and a turnaround simultaneously, wouldn't survive if it weren't for some of the zigs and zags in this in the battle scar tissue. Difference between wisdom and knowledge, right. And so, you know, in today's age, I think seeing, you know, experiences that are less than five years is okay, because, you know, if you're a fast mover with a quick learning curve, 18 months, 24 months, you should have at Wired, you should be training your your your relief or succession plan, and thinking about what's next. That's just my humble opinion. But those that have sat in a job and not kept up with the pace of the political and economic changes, the technologies that are out there, they really struggle coming into an environment like where I am now at Dendreon pharmaceuticals, it's a brutal environment for somebody who needs structure and a stable pace and predictability. It's just not where you want to be.
How Phil Creates a Thriving Culture in a Less Structured Environment [8:07]
Darren Reinke: So what are those skills in terms of how do you thrive in that environment? So that's super interesting challenge. I mean, people think about an existing legacy company or a startup not not both right, like, especially that you have the turnaround element, as well as like, how do you? How do you create that culture? How do you actually get people on board to be successful in that environment? Very unique environment?
Phil Dana: Yeah, you know, I think you and I share common ground and our work with the Honor Foundation and transitioning SpecOps, Navy Seals and other SpecOps folks in the corporate America and, you know, we put a lot of emphasis on culture, know thyself, identifying your strengths, in really creating the compass that points you in the right direction. And some of that is purpose, mission vision, you know, what is the purpose of the organization? Is it clear? Are there clear, defined values that are differentiating, I think bases did a phenomenal job with Amazon. And the early days with customer obsession and data driven, those two more than the others really stood out when I was a recruiter there. Because, you know, we were able to go after a lot of great talent, great brands, and this is not a knock against them. But Microsoft, GE and IBM, are great talent pools for us. The problem was that they didn't really many of them didn't really align to those two specifically, you know, they thought they were data driven until, you know, they get in front of Jeff basis through new every pixel on this screen of a Kindle. And then the customer obsession, I think, I don't think anyone had really understood what that meant, until spending time there. So I think the TrueNorth the clear values, the willing ness to change and evolve the new technologies, different systems, different ask different requests, different needs of whoever the client or the patient is, in our case, to be able to solve problems with a smile on your face and not getting stressed out and bringing friction to the workplace or between you and others is always key. So the team ability Have you put one word on it? It's becoming more important in Agile kind of environments team ability. Then I think last is Inquisition, the ability to be curious, to ask questions to understand something. And not I don't know something about today's age where people tend to carry ego and pride a little too much. Like it's okay to say you don't understand something, figure it out, you'll end up being a better leader. If you get into it and try to understand it.
Why Creating an Authentic True North Serves as an Anchor for Your Company [10:38]
Darren Reinke: It's so much to unpack are they talking about a true north values, Team ability, agility, Inquisition, ego, or I guess, lack of ego. So let's just zero out on the true north things I think so many people think about, they talk about that. I don't think a lot of companies truly have one that really rings true with their employees is like how do you go about creating a truly authentic, true north? I don't mean authentic from a cliche perspective, but something that really rings true and in serves as an anchor point of motivation, to all the staff like how do you go about doing that and bringing it to life?
Phil Dana: I can't help but think about my current state, you know, at Dendreon pharmaceuticals, we serve old guys that have prostate cancer. We all have had fathers hopefully, or father figures in our lives. And my dad passed from a liver cancer tumor, although not the client that we serve specifically, but I can't help but think about him every day that if liver cancer at that time had an immunotherapy product similar to Provenge, that I would have jumped right into it. In fact, we did a lot of research around it, ended up taking them to China for an off label, and maybe extended his life for a couple of years. So here I am. Fast forward a few years this was back when I was at Life Technologies. Now here at Dendreon, it resonates with me it resonated as I researched the company, it resonated so much in my conversation with the CEO that he waved some of the requirements of the role because I didn't have the years of experience in pharmaceuticals, because he felt the authenticity and the transparency and a little bit of Irish heart string tug. When I said, Look, I really want to work here because this is important to me. And as I get older, it becomes more and more important to know that my life is meaningful. And then I'm impacting people, more than putting thinking that I'm putting the logos on my tombstone, meaning company logos. So I think, you know, experiences whether it's service in the military or tough experiences in life, or maybe your family has gone through some tough things or yourself, when you find a career where you're spending more hours doing it than many other things in your life that aligns to that. That sure becomes clearer of what you need to do and how you need to do it.
The Key Steps Phil Takes to Create Individualized Purpose Within His Team [12:49]
Darren Reinke: Yeah, I'd love to talk about purpose more in a second, because obviously, you're purpose driven guy. I mean, it just comes loud and clear, does even talking to you. But just back to the in terms of creating a sense of purpose within the organization. I think that's interesting is, I mean, assuming not everyone has that personal connection to cancer, or maybe they maybe they do is how do you create that individualized connection to that set that sense of purpose? And that TrueNorth for the company?
Phil Dana: Yeah, so a couple of different ways. You know, so you said two things there. If you have it, then, you know, you definitely, as an HR leader, you want to put it on the front, you want to have it in your marketing your career site in the job description in the process of interviewing, you know, even when you go to the building, is it clear in the lobby, when you're walking around talking to people or even bumping into them in a break room between interviews? are they discussing it? My took a group of Navy SEALs to SpaceX as an example. And I swear to God, over 30 people within an hour told us they're all going to Mars. It was so powerful, so clear, so potent, that by the time we left, we all thought we're going to Mars with them. I mean, that's how, how clear and strong the Kool Aid was. So that's one one way but say you don't want to go to Mars, say you haven't fought cancer or have lost a family member. But you still want to work in an organization. The best thing you can do is bring it bring it in, incorporate it into your day to day, whether it's pictures, videos, or actually bringing the patients in to meet everybody. Nothing was more powerful for me then to meeting one of our patients at Dendreon pharmaceutical at a national sales meeting and talking to his wife about the impact our company had on her life, their life, the family's life, as well as bringing a patient into a manufacturing facility. And having two of the people that worked on his product took his blood cells and turn it into the product, but a back in his body to change his life for that patient to meet those two people that were in the lab working long, crazy hours to do that. I didn't need to be there. I wasn't a part of it. But to see that in the field, the interaction extremely powerful. You know, many industries, the great FedEx stories of Fred Smith, hiring senior execs all the way to the VP level and making them drive a truck for two weeks. When I started at Amazon, I saw Jeff Bezos in a in a pick and pack situation in Reno, in the early days, wrapping Christmas presents to get through peak season. But I think the savage leaders, you know, quote in your book, those are the types of leaders that will set the example, get everybody pointed in the same direction, because you really believe in the purpose so much that everybody's going to feel it.
Darren Reinke: Yeah, man. He said, it's almost bringing in the end customer, and what a powerful story of bringing in a cancer patient and his wife, but it's almost like flipping out the idea of empathy, like I do design thinking, where you're getting yourself in the shoes, but you're actually applying it now to build culture and to build purpose. And it's a great way to learn more about what our customer pain points within this, it's in service of helping people get a greater connection to that sense of purpose.
Phil Dana: Absolutely. And, you know, before we started, you talked about some of the quotes for folks that have read your book, The Savage, leader, and what it meant to them and how it impacted them. And that that was a big deal to you, clearly, you brought it up, and the passion and your energy lit up. So as you know, somebody, anyone that wakes up in the morning wanting to do a good job putting long, hard hours into a job, again, usually more hours in the job versus your family or anything else in life, to feel that to get that to measure it, it's sometimes far more important than compensation or anything else.
Darren Reinke: Yeah, it's funny people, most people say it's about the money that is, you know, it's not really about the money, you know, maybe some extent or some short duration. But that sense of purpose. I mean, for me, doing something that matters and seeing shifts in people, and it's not about ego, when I see how the book impacted people, it's like just, it feels great to see people change in their lives and get past barriers and obstacles. Like to me, that's what gets me super pumped. It's awesome. So that sense of purpose, it's interesting topic, because it's, it may seem inaccessible to most people, right, it says, so I'm going to talk about creating purpose in in like creating it not finding x, most people don't have that they have a flash of light experience. Some do. But the majority don't, at least based on my perspective.
How You Can Create Your Own Sense of Purpose Regardless of Occupation [17:18]
Darren Reinke: But how do you from an organizational perspective, create a sense of purpose, when you don't have necessarily a clear connection like a Dendreon to helping cancer patients, or the Honor Foundation and helping former special ops guys transition into the civilian world? Or like a manufacturer or just a professional services company? How do you go about creating a sense of purpose? I know you've worked with a range of companies, you know, from from the intuits of the world to this Ovios of a world, which maybe they don't have as clear of a path to purpose. But how do you do that? Because I'm trying to think about the majority of organizations that exist out there.
Phil Dana: Yeah, I think, you know, first and foremost starts at the top, you know, one of the books behind me Extreme Ownership, there's no bad teams, just bad leaders. And so as a as a leader, you have to whatever the purpose is, you have to communicate it frequently, clearly, and check for feedback that it's getting through to your to your folks, even if you're a widget maker, you know, there's nothing sexy about designing the outlet, that's, that's near me in my office here. But that CEO, you know, could get in front of his company, and very clearly say, without this outlet, homes don't get electricity without electricity. You don't get X, Y and Z. And so, you know, sometimes it might be a little bit of a stretch, but I think most things in life do have a purpose. And it's really up to the leaders to set it, communicate it and to make sure that the folks under them or around them are feeling it, understand it, and can strive for it. As an HR guy, I also have to say it's, you know, a lot of it goes into designing and executing a great performance management system. You know, clear job description, how do you set the goals? How do you assimilate, develop retained towards that? How do you reward the right behaviors? How do you identify the strengths, the opportunities along the way for individual development plans and all that kind of stuff? Again, people is like a golf game, right? It's complicated. Nobody's ever hit 18 holes in one and row and nobody's ever hired, developed and retain the perfect human being ever. And so, you know, having a great performance management system that can keep it somewhat contained in a multi dimensional space is important. And then last is, you know, letting letting people feel the end game. The end game is absolutely critical. If you're a worker be in the trenches, and you never get to see the car that you helped build. You never get to get in it and drive it. As a leader. You're screwing it up. You're missing out, put that worker bee on the line. Have them drive that brand new Mustang. That worker bee will be happier on the line I promise.
Why You Should Instill the Mindset of Lifelong Learning Within Your Team [20:19]
Darren Reinke: Great practical advice is his show. How it impacts right like where's the cancer patient coming in, and also the electrical outlet. I love you picked a totally unsexy example. But you went even beyond just like, you know, electrification of a household and the benefits of having light and warmth. But even going beyond that, I think it's a great to very practical examples. But you also alluded to something that we talked about when I interviewed you for the book, Israel on this concept of lifelong learning. I talked about the importance of lifelong learning, I know you do some really interesting themes or things with your teams at the various stops along the way. So talk to me about lifelong learning, and then some of the things that you do to foster that within a team.
Phil Dana: Yeah, whether it's a little things like, you know, creating a book club, having a shelf, like what's behind me in the office and letting folks grab them, which I don't have currently, but I've done in the past, that's my disclaimer, or bringing content into the workplace, encouraging your team to subscribe. You know, as a leader, I feel like, it's my duty almost. And it happens to be one of my Gallup strengths input to take applicable and relative content, digest it, and then send it out to others. I'm that guy, whether you hate me or love me on the team, whether it's my peers, or my team under me, if I think there's something that's good, and that should be shared and digested, I'm the guy that will afford it out. I'm the guy that will put it on LinkedIn and tag a bunch of people, you know, whatever it is. And I think that's critical. As a leader, whether you're a reader or not, to put yourself in the middle of that to be the conduit will make your team stronger. You know, I think animals for betas and General McChrystal both have publicly put out several times in their books and in their talks, that the best leaders in the world have always been avid readers and learners. I think like many others, I've made many mistakes throughout life, some of its wisdom versus knowledge. So just because you're reading doesn't mean you're going to be a great leader. And so to also run into walls, fail, fail hard and fast, and learn from it. To me, that's a big part of a learning culture, as well as zero tolerance. All that kind of stuff gets in the way of superior results, allow your folks to, to hit a wall and bounce off and keep going. I think that's a big part of the learning culture.
Darren Reinke: I mean, just You're a great example that you go from the Navy to construction to I'm going to miss a few of these but he had to an education company into the Honor Foundation to into it to now you're in pharmaceuticals is obviously you've had to learn something. So I mean, you mentioned even before you know you were able use that you were such a good fit with purpose that you were hired into Dendreon, but I'm assuming there was a ton of learning you had to do along the way to get up to speed from a farmer perspective.
Why Phil Enjoys Being the Dumbest Guy in the Room [22:53]
Phil Dana: Yeah, there's something about my upbringing and in, you know, the formative years where I actually enjoy being the dumb guy in the room. In fact, I thrive off of it. It's never happened because I'm pretty dumb. But the day that I look around the room and realize that I'm a smart guy in a room, that's that's going to be a horrible organization. I want nothing to do with it. Yeah, I think that's why I gravitate towards more of the tech, the innovative, the science side of things, because I'm a Polish guy who grew up in the wilderness in North Idaho. I don't belong in those environments. So that's part of my purpose, right? Once you learn that, or you have that experience, and you feel it like Okay, now, I won't go back to that I won't do brick and mortar. I won't, I won't go back to where I was one of the smarter ones. Now I purposely point my networking and my efforts in the direction of brilliant science. And I know I'll be happy once I land there. But yeah, it's it's tough. Learning a new language and my current environment. I'm just now now I've been here almost two years. So I'm just now starting to be able to speak the language because my gosh, a lot of acronyms, I thought the military had a ton. And a lot of words with more than 10 letters in them. So that's, that's fascinating. To learn. A science that's general public hasn't quite grasp or understand yet. It's pretty cool.
Darren Reinke: Yeah, some cutting edge stuff for sure. But just from that people perspective, you've alluded to something which is it being okay with not being the smartest guy in the room. And that takes a lot of things right? I mean, humility, confidence, security, like how do you how do you go about that instilling that within your team? Obviously, that's just part of your own ethos, right? Like you seek out these environments where there's so much just, you know, Rockstar talent around you, but like, how do you work with some of your leaders in terms of being okay with that and hiring people that maybe are experts in areas they're not experts?
Phil Dana: I think being you know, and listen made me a better officer. Being blue collar makes me a better white collar executive. Those experiences give me a higher level of empathy, and attunement to what's going on around me my environment. Also the assumption that everybody got something going on in their life that day, just because they have one tough day or drop an F bomb in a meeting where maybe they shouldn't have. don't crucify him for it, turn it into a learning moment. And so I think great leaders, great HR leaders have probably lived lived a life and not in a bottle or a book.
Darren Reinke: Absolutely. It's not just the the skills that show up on your resume. It's all about the experiences you have that really make you that empathetic leader that you can inspire people by connecting to them in more authentic ways as well.
Phil Dana: Yeah, certainly, I have two teammates right now going through some relationship stuff that's, you know, hard not to impact your work, especially in COVID, where you're working from home and everything's kind of inner intertwine nowadays anyway. And, you know, having gone through some of that in my life, a couple divorces and, and different chapters of my life, I think it allows me to connect better with them and help them navigate through it in an easier, not easier, but better way.
Darren Reinke: Yeah, for sure. Definitely. Yeah. But being comfortable, and being vulnerable and sharing some of those stories, and what a great way to connect with them and what I mean, how much more connected they feel to you in the organization. When you're sharing some of these things. You're, you're becoming more approachable and more authentic and more real, frankly.
Phil Dana: Well, sometimes you just got to go with your DNA, man. I mean, I'm an Irishman, who was a sailor, was born to tell stories.
Darren Reinke: And proclivity to drop F bombs T. Right.
Phil Dana: You know, it's hard not to.
The Crucial Skillsets Phil Looks for Before Making a Hiring Decision [26:32]
Darren Reinke: I'd love to just switch gears a little bit, because you've had the chance to sit in so many HR talent acquisition seats, like, what are you seeing in terms of some of the new skills, new experiences? Like what are you looking for in workers these days? I mean, you talked about, Hey, it's okay to maybe bounce around a little bit. Hey, it shows some experience and weed before. I think sales maybe had the unique pass on that because okay, as long as they could come in and deliver, and maybe you're okay with short stints but sounds like that's acceptable. Now, too, is just more stops along the way. But what are some other things like what are some skills you're seeing is really must haves in terms of getting a job these days?
Phil Dana: I think team ability is becoming the big one, you know, watching these guys, Mike Serral. And in charge in the guys doing war on talent, it's a great group to follow. They've really been focusing on that, you know, and Jocko, and those guys focus a little bit on it, Team of Teams, that's a great one. But yeah, the team ability is where consultants are making most of their money now, it's not, do you know what you're doing? Are you technical expert, it's are you an asshole when you're working with others at work? How are you being perceived how you're rubbing off in today's age at speed at which we're moving? The reliance on technology, you know, in the multicultural, and now we're adding we're literally layering in generations as the workforce is getting older and younger at the same time. Team ability, I think, is the big one. I know that's That sounds obvious. And I'm probably being captain obvious there. But I don't think there's a lot of true expertise on that and being inquisitive. You know, in today's age to just Google all the answers, well, what if you're in an industry or you're a new tech? The answers aren't on the internet? What if you actually have to figure out how the garage door works, rather than just pushing the button 20 times and getting mad at it? Because it's not, you know, I've literally on a daily basis, watch people that type of scenario, forget that they can open the garage door manually. In to Me as fascinating. And then three, I think just good old fashioned hard work. And so I you know, I think if there's a new industry out there, it's going to be tied to that. I mean, there's their shows about it, right, Mike? You know, getting in getting dirty, getting political about it a little bit. But, man have a great work ethic nowadays, you're standing out, I don't care what company you're in, you're gonna have a you'll have a great career path. If you if you can just grind and not cry and whimper about it. When when you need to turn some long hours.
Darren Reinke: Yeah, I think it's so important. Especially you think about that more from a startup perspective, right? Like you got to be. I always like to ask those questions to people like how scrappy are you, you know, when you don't have the layers of support, especially if you take someone from a big org, that's, you know, got a bunch of a huge team around them is like, how scrappy Are you? You know, it's like it's really important that hard work I remember back to a very glamorous least on paper internship at Lucasfilm, and one of the top 100 internships in America and like, so my job was I worked in the fitness center and this general store filing, which is gonna date me a little bit. I was cleaning the pool and I was my best job was power sanding the softball benches. So, you know, look good on my resume. I definitely flipped it to look more positive than that. But yeah, I think it's really important that a ability or willingness to get dirty and to work hard to break down the team ability stuff. I mean, that's stuff that's like, that's sort of always been important. I mean, I think it's, I mean, I guess I'm glad there's more of a spotlight on it. Now, but like break that apart a little bit, and I think about a lot of communication managers acting as coaches to their teams like what are you seeing now, when you think about how you're evaluating someone in their team ability, quote, unquote, like, what are you looking for specifically,
How Phil Evaluates Peoples' Team Ability and the Importance of Hard Work [30:07]
Phil Dana: I think patience, you know, the ability to over communicate and patient, people might say at once, as a leader, you really need to understand just like a sales cycle, five to eight times, is probably the magic spot, not one or two, empathy, you know, the true understanding that everybody's going through something, and how to approach people, especially in stressful time periods, like now with a pandemic social injustice. Tough, you know, and shifting economy, not easy when you're filling the F 150 truck with $5 a gallon gas in California, in so many other things. I think the other one is knowing your strengths. Right? So some of the exercises that you know, you and I are familiar with, because because we're interested in it, but doing you know, predictive index, gallop strengths, Hogan assessments, all those kinds of tools are, you know, really becoming more and more important, as people really just want to hit a button and get a one page readout, and have the magic happen for their team to be successful. As you know, that takes hours, it takes a professional coach, it takes science, real science behind it, to really have a diverse team of different ages, different cultures. Oh, that's that's why you react that way, when I come into your office unannounced or unscheduled. You're wired to not like that. Now that I know that I might change my behavior, and we'll meet in the middle and more work better. There's, you know, there's a million different examples like that. But companies are in such a hurry right now to push towards their exit or push towards something that they forget to slow down and take the time to do those types of exercises, off sites, all that kind of conductivity having a meal together. can't replace that with a Zoom meeting, I promise.
Darren Reinke: Yeah, no, that's tricky, for sure. And you mentioned just the assessments and strengths. And I think one of the biggest benefits of that is just just cracking people's heads open in terms of greater self awareness, self awareness of themselves, but also awareness of others. So whether it's strengths, or whether it's motives and personality styles. So powerful, this is a great way to start to think about things differently, I say is like you and I may maybe the same experience, same, we're the same companies. But like while we may fundamentally be different, different strengths, different perspectives, what drives us is different. So it's really important to keep in mind that I think about that a lot in terms of greater self awareness, and is also awareness of other people who are different.
Phil Dana: You just touched on some really important feedback, I think that's a new, a new, energized, hot area, and the HR circles, tools, training, consulting materials that enable quality, real transparent, accurate feedback. And so you know, coming from environments, whether it was a military or high performing companies, real time feedback was definitely a thread in the day to day operations and abilities. But man, nowadays, it's hard to tell somebody that they fail at something and not have them just lose their mind and need the quiet room for a couple hours, because you just told them that they failed. And so providing that feedback and create an environment where it's safe and accepted, is getting, I think it's getting more challenging. That's just my observation.
Darren Reinke: He led a session actually recently where we were focusing on feedback, so feedback to your team feedback to your colleagues feedback to your manager. And it's such a incredibly powerful tool, but man, it can go can go really bad too, right? I mean, underlying the whole thing, as you know, is trust, right, you have to develop trust, you can't just come up to someone out of blue, no context, just give them a zinger can give them that go buzzing with the high fastball, but you know, it's like positioning it in service of their growth is really helpful. I think also, I talk about making it a habit like make it part of a routine for someone who I was definitely very conflict avoidant, I'm definitely less so now. But giving making it part of your route, your cadence, your conversation, your team meetings, getting feedback, when you meet with your direct reports, your boss is like make it just like flex it build it like a muscle, I think it becomes much more approachable that way as well. At least from my experience.
Phil Dana: I like that a little video that's out there where there's some big metal gate and there's two or three dogs on each side and they're like, you know, just brutal mean vicious dogs are barking at each other. And the gates opening and then the gates open and then the dogs stop barking wagging their tail and then they go off and play together. I think that's, you know, today's age or social media and, you know, everybody's an expert. Everybody has feedback until you're face to face at that point. That's when I think feedback is the most valuable and hopefully Like the dogs you can go off and play together.
Darren Reinke: So much good imagery on social media is just the you know, extreme example of that right but yeah, the barking and then yeah, get goes away. Well, I really appreciate your time. Phil, I know you're incredibly busy guy doing so much. Where can people go to find out more about you maybe connect with you on social media but also all the great work that you're doing Dendreon
Phil Dana: oh man, you know, LinkedIn is my battlespace, that's been my playground for years. And I feel like I've got a pretty rich network of great folks like yourself and some some good wisdom battle scars to share. So if anyone really wants to follow me or connect with me, LinkedIn is probably the best spot. Great and by Dendreon Yeah, same I am the administrator of Dendreon on LinkedIn. And I never miss an opportunity to share what we're up to what our opportunities are, you know, we're growing a cellular therapy, CMO. So we're going to begin making products across multiple indications for other companies. wildly exciting. So as a start up portion of Dendreon and then we are turning we have turned Provenge and Dendreon around after a few years of declining sales there so certainly follow me I got a great HR team. We're doing a ton of cool stuff. We're learning the hard way in some cases, so still still don't haven't quite figured out not hitting all 18 holes in one, but a birdie here, a bogey there. At the end of the end of the day. I feel like we're winning.
Darren Reinke: That's fantastic. And by the way, what a great example of getting your hands dirty. You're the head of HR. You're also the LinkedIn group administrator. So yeah, I respond to everybody on Glassdoor as well. So that stuff's important to me. You know, as an owner, I want to own it.
Phil Dana: Yep, absolutely. Well, hey, thanks for great catching up again and appreciate your time. Thanks, Darren. Cheers.
Darren Reinke: Thanks for listening to today's episode of The Savage Leader Podcast. My hope is you walk away with tactics that you can apply to become a better leader in your life and in your career. If you're looking for additional insight in tactics, be sure to check out my book titled The Savage Leader 13 Principles to Become a Better Leader From The Inside Out. Also, be sure to subscribe to the podcast and I would truly appreciate it if you would leave a review and also rate the podcast. Thanks and see you in the next episode.